As another Lame Cherry exclusive in matter anti matter.
I enjoy coming across information which makes little sense, as that is information more interesting than that which does make sense.
The example today is from like 1890 AD in the year of our Lord, and some dude is off ruffed grouse hunting, and I will allow the story to be told in the part which interests me.......
"I was among the blackberry-patches of Saginaw County, Mich., for a week's shooting, and had as companions two dogs; one a well-broken pointer (not a blue-blood), the other a thick-coated Irish setter, who had so far forgotten his early training, by serving as "town dog," as to chase a bird until it took refuge in a tree, and then proclaim the fact with an indefatigable vehemence that was very amusing to everyone save his owner.
On the second morning, the pointer refused to enter the thorny coverts. I therefore sent in the ambitious red-coat, who hurriedly dispersed the congregations. At the end of the first hour, I caught and thrashed him. This was repeated at irregular intervals until night-fall, when I had a thoroughly subjugated dog, and all of my shells intact.
Next morning, much to my surprise, this dog pointed like a veteran, while the pointer again refused to face the briars. The setter was therefore used during the remainder of my stay.
By the third night he had worn off what we term the "wire edge," and a large portion of his coat; but, undaunted as before, He resolutely obeyed every motion, pointed with excellent judgment, and without breaking, and worked as industriously and unflinchingly on the last-day as on the third. It was a wonderful performance, but one that shall never be repeated by one of my dogs, for after our return home the poor fellow lay by the fire three days, nearly blind, and so foot-sore he could not walk."
For those not in on the poop here, English pointers are known as being hard headed dogs, while Irish Setters are known for being rather soft in their disposition, as yelling at a setter is like beating the hell out of them, while a pointer one could break their hand beating them to obey.
It puzzles me why this Setter is so hard headed and is able to take the beating, which honestly, beating a dog gets you two of two things, and that is a dog which runs away from you and you get to watch it running away from you.
In this case though, the surprise was the Setter was spoiled and the beating unspoiled it, but then someone should have beat the bajesus out of this hunter for over hunting this poor dog, which was tore up with briers......as that intelligent pointer which needed a beating to get into the scratchy stuff was left to watch the show.
I never have had any good results in spanking a dog in volume in training. Dogs that need spanking end up hurting your hand worse than you can deal anything out, and dogs that need other methods in discipline never obey to a spanking and only cower.
I give you two examples in two Golden Setters I have been owned by. Dixie was a little girl that simply liked to range and I did not. The cure was to make her heel behind me as we walked in training. She hated that and soon learned to keep close. I started her off on very little sloughs which she had to work close, and she behaved wonderfully.
The only time she ever ran off, was after a downed bird she had marked, and that is what she was supposed to do.
Ruby was a big girl, with no stamina, but she liked to run. Ruby was always more pleased with life than with hunting. She just loved being alive. I swatted her, but there was no controlling her and instead of ruining her and her company, I simply changed my hunting and let her do her thing, while I hunted around a different angle, and birds got flustered with all that unorthodox work, and we got game.
This is not to intimate that Ruby did not love hunting. That dog shook, made all sorts of pitchy noises while we drove to an area, and was thrilled by it, but due to AKC field trial spoilage in her genes, she just was a rocket going off, while I needed a simple lighter.
There are those people who use shock collars and I will have nothing to do with them, as if you have to electrocute a dog to listen to you, then you have lost the battle. Ruby was never out of control as if I commanded, SIT, she would stop and sit.
I know I have mentioned this before in dog training, but will give the La'me Cherry lesson again.
Do not ever use the word NO to stop a dog, as a dog equates NO with you punishing them as they learn NO does not stop them from going nuts when people show up and they are all over them, as you look like a fool, screaming NO NO NO and it does no good.
Instead, I use the word SIT sharply. Sit is an action, and an action that if necessary swat reinforces to gain control of the dog. A dog learns to respond to an action by gaining their attention to a command. NO is not a command to do anything. Sit is something they have to do as an action, and once a dog is sitting, then you can command them to COME, and the world is at peace.
I have baffled people with that reality which was God Inspired, as they think it is marvelous to have a dog mind so well. It is instead giving the puppy something to do, instead of ignore you.
I do not care for those damned whistles either. A well trained dog should neither need collar nor leash. That will sound puzzling from someone with a Ruby who would not obey in hunting style, but Ruby was bred to hunt like that and genetics do override obedience, just as if you are a person who does not like people talking to you closely, and you will immediately back off for distance.
I judge every field trial and show dog as worthless, as they are so niche oriented that a real person can do nothing with so much energy or so much prima dona. A moderate dog with moderate energy, doing moderate things, is more than enough dog for most people.
Field trials and dog shows have ruined breeds for the majority of people, as dogs were bred for interaction with people in working as in herding, hunting, fetching, trailing or in all of those terrier breeds from Aerdale to Dachshund, killers who killed things killing your livestock.
I wonder not that the Irish Setter has been ruined by show dogs, but that even with crossing them with English Setters, they still are not great dogs, but the Golden Setter is awakening them, providing the Golden is not one of these AKC or blind man dogs, which is ruining that breed too.
Any Irish Setter I ever knew, if I had wailed on them for a day, they would never have been any good to anyone ever again. The breeds have changed as apparently the 1890 Irishman was harder headed, but then the breed did originate as two groups of dogs in white and red, and black at their founding.
It was only through killing pups which did not measure up, or were of a standard color, did any breed standardize. It was a rough handling of dogs, but that is how the breeds were ruined too, as all those flowing Goldens and Irish fur coats came from breeders knocking the thin coated ones in the heads. One never hears though of those such things of reality from the Ron Reagan jr. dog show groups.
This probably should return to the original quote, but thinking of a dog laying half blind and lame by the fire from over use is another puzzling thing, in just what part of skinning your dog on briers did not soak in, and that person thought it was ok to do it another day.
I just probably am biased as this was a setter.
agtG
